Comments on: apology/retraction re: autism speaks t-shirt scandal thing https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2008/06/29/apologyretraction-re-autism-speaks-t-shirt-scandal-thing/ Tue, 08 Jul 2008 04:09:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: EvilZakkie https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2008/06/29/apologyretraction-re-autism-speaks-t-shirt-scandal-thing/#comment-21391 Tue, 08 Jul 2008 04:09:19 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=547#comment-21391 Evonne> Yep, they claim $1,000,000 in lost donations, from a parody site that got around one hit per day – or did before the whole thing blew up.

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By: Evonne https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2008/06/29/apologyretraction-re-autism-speaks-t-shirt-scandal-thing/#comment-21390 Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:25:24 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=547#comment-21390 Yes, I seem to recall that AS claimed they’d lost a specific amount of donation funds as a result.

Even if that were true (and if I recall correctly it was a ridiculously large amount that the parody site couldn’t possibly have been responsible for; and I suspect the large amount was also intended as a scare tactic), it would be the equivalent of Wal-Mart trying to sue because they’ve lost business as a result of folks saying Wal-Mart is evil. Which they probably have. But folks have the right to not patronize an establishment — or give funds to a so-called charity — because they’ve heard negative criticism of it. It’s the nature of the market.

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By: Emily https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2008/06/29/apologyretraction-re-autism-speaks-t-shirt-scandal-thing/#comment-21389 Wed, 02 Jul 2008 21:31:34 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=547#comment-21389 >>As far as I know, in order to sue for copyright infringement and prove it can’t be regarded as fair use, you have to prove that financial damages have been caused to you or your organization by someone else’s (supposed) use of something you had the copyright to. In other words, that people bought it instead of the product you were offering, and that therefore you or your organization didn’t get the money you would have gotten if they bought the legal version you were selling. This would be true in the case of, say, a pirated DVD copy of a movie.<<

I believe that was what Autism Speaks would’ve tried to prove since they claimed something like one-millionth of supporter decline due to the faux-site. How they could have proven that, I have no idea. But the threat of law suit, according to Kelly, included the claim that they had lost donations because of her parodied site.

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By: ballastexistenz https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2008/06/29/apologyretraction-re-autism-speaks-t-shirt-scandal-thing/#comment-21388 Tue, 01 Jul 2008 02:10:20 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=547#comment-21388 Yeah, I thought I’d heard someone mention the Wal-Mart thing at Autreat.

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By: Shiu^Amorpha https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2008/06/29/apologyretraction-re-autism-speaks-t-shirt-scandal-thing/#comment-21387 Tue, 01 Jul 2008 02:08:57 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=547#comment-21387 As far as I know, in order to sue for copyright infringement and prove it can’t be regarded as fair use, you have to prove that financial damages have been caused to you or your organization by someone else’s (supposed) use of something you had the copyright to. In other words, that people bought it instead of the product you were offering, and that therefore you or your organization didn’t get the money you would have gotten if they bought the legal version you were selling. This would be true in the case of, say, a pirated DVD copy of a movie. (Whether the copyright laws that currently exist are *fair* and whether they protect individuals’ rights to their own work or just allow large companies to get even richer is a different can of worms that I’m not going to get into at all.)

As far as I know, Autism Speaks and the logo are actually trademarks, not copyrights, so it can’t even technically be called copyright infringement. If someone were selling T-shirts that could be mistaken for a similar product sold by Autism Speaks, then Autism Speaks might have a case. (The right to use or parody a company’s name in order to criticize that company has been upheld in court, though– I think one of the aspieweb threads you linked to in the original post mentioned a case where the right of protesters to use the Wal-Mart name and logo on T-shirts criticizing Wal-Mart was upheld.)

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By: Julian^Amorpha https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2008/06/29/apologyretraction-re-autism-speaks-t-shirt-scandal-thing/#comment-21386 Mon, 30 Jun 2008 22:13:21 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=547#comment-21386 Yeah, NT Speaks sounds as though it would fall under the “parody and fair use” clause, I think, too.

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By: John Gagon https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2008/06/29/apologyretraction-re-autism-speaks-t-shirt-scandal-thing/#comment-21385 Mon, 30 Jun 2008 22:01:54 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=547#comment-21385 Parody is fair use. One recent case I know of is how Eminem tried to sue Weird Al Yankovich. Weird Al won because his work is clearly unpointed humor….critical parody is often more serious than funny and so there is sometimes a case of slander there but it can be hard to prove without a kind of panel of judges or something….even so, it might escape yet again as political speech or educational use. Permission requests are a norm of ettiquette and often, it is treated as a “sue now or forever hold your peace” protection. In any case, such documents are good backup in court for the person doing the parody. That said, it was egregiously vicious and vile what Autism Speaks did to the website owner.

Part of me was reading with dropped jaw here until I read an affirmation of your position in your closing lines and your clarified viewpoint. I think it’s mature what you are doing and fairly wise given that a little “shock” value in your opening lines adds that much more to your point. It’s comforting to know your example here and respect your taking a higher moral terrain than Autism Speaks despite them. I highly doubt they’d afford the same respect sadly but I’m also about giving a benefit of doubt and being responsible for one’s journal.

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By: ballastexistenz https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2008/06/29/apologyretraction-re-autism-speaks-t-shirt-scandal-thing/#comment-21384 Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:22:31 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=547#comment-21384 Parody is supposed to be okay, though. There have been recent cases supporting that kind of thing.

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By: Naomi https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2008/06/29/apologyretraction-re-autism-speaks-t-shirt-scandal-thing/#comment-21383 Mon, 30 Jun 2008 13:58:19 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=547#comment-21383 The email from Zazzle that Zach posted is barely legible, but it looks like Zazzle told Zach that Autism Speaks asked for the t-shirt to be removed. So it seems the error is Zazzle’s.

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By: Emily https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2008/06/29/apologyretraction-re-autism-speaks-t-shirt-scandal-thing/#comment-21382 Mon, 30 Jun 2008 13:42:52 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=547#comment-21382 I don’t know. They either knew about the t-shirt but knew they had no legal right to request its removal, or they just never knew about it in the first place.

With NT Speaks though I do believe they had a legal right to request the site either be seriously altered or taken down because a website (and correct me if I’m wrong) is considered a “creative work” and therefore is not covered under Fair Use under US Copyright Law.

Their behavior and their demands were, however, despicable. That’s what I objected to. Threatening a law suit for $90,000 was simply a power play; no normal person has that kind of money, let alone can afford to go to court, and they knew that. And it worked.

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