Comments on: If you can do X, why can’t you do Y? https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/if-you-can-do-x-why-cant-you-do-y/ Sat, 15 Dec 2007 15:58:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: Andrew B. Chason https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/if-you-can-do-x-why-cant-you-do-y/#comment-19419 Sat, 15 Dec 2007 15:58:05 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=448#comment-19419 I do not mean to derail your topic, but what form of voice synthesis do you use; I find it is one of the best I have heared.

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By: John Gagon https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/if-you-can-do-x-why-cant-you-do-y/#comment-19418 Fri, 05 Oct 2007 00:23:34 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=448#comment-19418 I liked this and don’t know what else to say and I’m enjoying the comments too about the (guessing here) synaesthesia. I used to visualize a LOT more all my sensations. Smell, Touch, Sounds, Taste, Even vestibular…. like I see blue tubing at times, red brick structures with feelings inside. I’ve lost it and I actually don’t know what it’s due to. I feel like it got stolen and I don’t know where my ability went. I feel like I used to be able to do a lot of really cool things that others couldn’t and now I can’t like I forgot. It’s like, when I was allowed to play, I could do them but because I’m focused on media and how *everyone else* does things and I’m used to doing everything *their* way, my old talents never got appreciated/used and I guess their lost! No one asks me what color some feeling feels like at all. It’s weird and so it got lost/unused. Society seems to select skills that are considered important and the rest are thrown away or never used. If I were isolated, it might be better but then I’d also be lonely….so no win yet…it’s why I want to be around people who are not “normal to society” and yet “normal to themselves”. I know I’m not or at least I remember that I wasn’t. I can maybe learn some things from them that I might have forgotten.

Sure, the extra visualization for everything may seem like work now but at one time, it was more natural than language and my mind has been drilled and drilled to use language that is common to everyone so that everyone will roughly be the same and differences will diminish…even though these differences might be useful or even essential for some of us.

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By: ballastexistenz https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/if-you-can-do-x-why-cant-you-do-y/#comment-19417 Wed, 03 Oct 2007 23:08:00 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=448#comment-19417 I think timbre is more equivalent to (visual) texture than color, somehow. And I am actually at times not good at timbre identification, at least not as good as at pitch identification. I played violin for years (and played quite well for my age, although now I can’t seem to play at all) while unable to pick out the sound of a violin among other instruments and relate it back to the instrument I was playing. I can identify a violin sound now, but sure couldn’t then.

At any rate, I think “violin” vs. “trumpet” is a lot closer to “striped” vs. “paisley” than to “blue” vs. “green”.

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By: Philip https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/if-you-can-do-x-why-cant-you-do-y/#comment-19416 Wed, 03 Oct 2007 19:35:57 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=448#comment-19416 There are several pages about absolute pitch (AP) in the book ‘This Is Your Brain on Music: Understanding a Human Obsession’ by Daniel Levitin, who runs the Laboratory for Musical Perception, Cognition and Expertise at McGill University, Montreal, where he is also Professor of Psychology.

People with AP can name notes as easily as most of us name colours. A person with AP can tell you if you play them a particular note, C-sharp for example, on the piano. Most people can’t do that – even most musicians can’t unless they’re looking at your fingers. Most people with AP can mame the pitch of other sounds also – like car horns, the hum of fluorescent lights, and knives clinking against dinner plates.

Colour is a psychosocial fiction. It doesn’t exist in the world, but our brains impose a colour, such as red or blue, on the one dimensional continuum of the frequency of light waves.

Pitch is also a pyschosocial fiction which does not exist in the world. It is caused by our brains imposing a structure on the one dimensional continuum of the frequency of sound waves. “We can instantly name a color just by looking at it. Why can’t we name sounds just by listening to them?”

“Well, most of us can identify sounds as effortlessly as we identify colors; it’s simply not the pitch we identify, but rather, the timbre […]. Still, it remains an unsolved problem why some people have AP and others don’t.”

In relation to autistic people and music, Daniel Levitin perpetuates stereotypes and ignorance. He contrasts people with Williams Syndrome [WS], who are highly social, gregarious and paricularly good at music, with autistics who are highly anti-social and not very musical.

Because we are unable to empathize with others, to understand emotions or emotional communication, particularly emotions in others; we are utterly unable “to appreciate the aesthetic qualities of art and music. Although some [autistic] people play music, and some of them have reached a high level of technical profiency, they do not report being emotionally moved by music. Rather the preliminary and largely anecdotal evidence is that they are attracted to the *structure* of music.”

“Temple Grandin […] has written that she finds music ‘pretty’, but that in general, she just ‘doesn’t get it’ or understand why people react to it in the way that they do.”

We are able to empathize with others, to understand emotions in others, and to appreciate art and music, and be emotionally moved by music. I am. Besides there is no relationship between sociability and emotional enjoyment of music. With all the means to listen to music when alone an anti-social person can easily enjoy music,and be moved by it emotionally.

Also I’ve read elsewhere people with WS being described as very social, in contrast to autistics who are described as being very anti-social.

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By: Ettina https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/if-you-can-do-x-why-cant-you-do-y/#comment-19415 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 22:04:12 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=448#comment-19415 My Dad says it’s not a fair comparison because most people recognize colors as ‘red’, ‘blue’ etc instead of what exact hue they are to the degree of specificity of notes. He doesn’t have absolute pitch but if you play a note he is usually within 1-2 notes of it in his guess, which is probably similar to colors.

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By: ballastexistenz https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/if-you-can-do-x-why-cant-you-do-y/#comment-19414 Sun, 16 Sep 2007 03:21:48 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=448#comment-19414 I had a horrible experience at a tryout where the sheet music I was given to sight-sing was in one key and the piano was playing in a totally different key. I couldn’t do it. At all. I tried to say something and they told me “just transpose it” like that’s easy or something.

The flipside to that is how new and interesting a song sounds in a different key.

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By: pdw https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/if-you-can-do-x-why-cant-you-do-y/#comment-19413 Sun, 16 Sep 2007 02:21:48 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=448#comment-19413 Perfect pitch sometimes can be a hindrance. I have a person in my choir who cannot easily sing a piece of music if I transpose to another key. Everyone else can, because they have relative pitch. One Sunday I sprang a new idea on the choir: I wanted to transpose the last stanza up one half-note, kind of like country music. :) But we had to scrap that idea because it would have made the one singer not be able to read the music.

Someone I know who tunes instruments told me the story of a young man who walked up to a piano and got very upset because one note was out of tune. He didn’t check any of the others, which is what one normally does to tell that a note is out of tune. My friend realized that the young man had perfect pitch. I am not sure if he was autistic or something, but was a teenager who had limitations of some sort and did not work. My friend taught him to tune pianos and his mom used to drive him around to tune. He said luckily the piano from which he memorized the pitches was at or near A440 so he did a fairly good tuning job. This is something that would have happened at least 30 years ago so I know nothing else about it.

C is not quite yellow for me. It’s an orangish yellow. When I am having trouble with a piece, I do write the colors in, and then I get the notes right almost immediately. If I wrote in yellow for C, I’d be in trouble. I have to dig through my colored pencils finding just the right sort of yellowish orange, since F and E also are shades of yellow and orange. I wish they’d change to something a bit more varied but they don’t. At least D is a bright blue with some green in it, whilst B is a violet blue. I don’t get those mixed up.

I think I look at mouths and lip read somewhat. I never thought about it at all until I started reading about auditory processing difficulties.

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By: Andrea https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/if-you-can-do-x-why-cant-you-do-y/#comment-19412 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:56:52 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=448#comment-19412 I once read a story about a hearing, sighted 4-year-old girl whose mother just happened to be both deaf and blind. Her mother had the primary responsibility for looking after her during the day. So her father had gone through all of her books to add Braille to them, both for the text and also to add descriptions of the pictures so that if the girl pointed to, say, the yellow duck, then the mother could read the Braille and know to say, “Yes, that’s a yellow duck, and the duck is taking her babies to the pond blah blah.”

Well, one day, it appears that this little girl (who had not yet started learning to read on her own) was visiting a friend’s home and started going through the books there. Except, she kept saying, “oh this book is broken” then she’d look at another and declare that one broken also. (I forget if she was speaking this or signing this, but whatever, she was saying the books were all broken.) This kept going on for book after book until her father got there to ask what she meant. Turned out she thought all the books were “broken” because they had no Braille. So her father had to explain that sighted people read things by print instead of Braille!

We consider “natural” to be whatever we’re surrounded with. If we’re surrounded with sign, then of course sign will be natural. If we’re surrounded by books in Braille and a Mom who only reads Braille, than thats what will be natural. And if we have perfect pitch but can’t boil water, then that’d be natural too.

If a person doesn’t like chocolate, though, THAT can’t possibly be natural … ;-)

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By: Philip https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/if-you-can-do-x-why-cant-you-do-y/#comment-19411 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:08:23 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=448#comment-19411 A skil which is regarded as natural in one culture may be viewed as bizarre behaviour in another culture.

In ‘The Mask of Benevolence: Disabling the Deaf Community’, Harlan Lane tells how when a deaf friend with deaf parents was a young boy he made friends with a little girl next door, who was hearing. However he discovered that he could not communicate with her as he could with his family. She couldn’t understand even the simplest gestures. So he was reduced to pointing and bringing things to her, or her to things. He did not know what was wrong with her, but his conviction that she was strange was confirmed one day. The girl’s mother walked up to them while they were playing and moved her mouth furiously at her daughter. Suddenly she picked up her toys and left. He went to his mother and asked what the girl’s affliction was. His mother explained that the girl was hearing; she didn’t know how to sign, so she and her mother communicate with talk.

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By: Jackie https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/if-you-can-do-x-why-cant-you-do-y/#comment-19410 Thu, 13 Sep 2007 23:02:10 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=448#comment-19410 Very well done, I find the idea that someone assumes if you can do one thing you should be able to do another very annoying.

It is also tiresome to explain to people, as in your example about being able to not boil water, but do other tasks, that this does not mean you are like a little child. That’s like saying someone with “pitch-deficency” is infantile, because they fail at that one specific task.

This also brings to mind the idea that people will fail to teach us things, because they will assume we can’t comprehend it, without even trying to teach us.

I don’t mind explaining things to people, if they will understand. Not pat me on the head and act as if I explained to them I’m a child, and want to be treated as such. Like not being able to drive. For most people it seems not being able to drive, is akin to having the mindset of a 4 year old. What is up with that?!

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