Comments on: No Good Guys or Bad Guys Here https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/06/28/no-good-guys-or-bad-guys-here/ Wed, 01 Oct 2008 04:03:08 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: RESOURCE: The BIAS FREE Framework: A practical tool for identifying and eliminating social biases « We Can Do https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/06/28/no-good-guys-or-bad-guys-here/#comment-18364 Wed, 01 Oct 2008 04:03:08 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=411#comment-18364 […] No Good Guys or Bad Guys Here […]

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By: The personal is political « Touchingly Naive https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/06/28/no-good-guys-or-bad-guys-here/#comment-18363 Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:18:08 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=411#comment-18363 […] These remarks were partly inspired by the following two posts, which helped to crystallise and galvanise the thoughts I have tried to express herein: Den of the Biting Beaver: The Politics of Penetration Ballastexistenz: No Good Guys or Bad Guys Here […]

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By: Jesse the K https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/06/28/no-good-guys-or-bad-guys-here/#comment-18362 Fri, 20 Jul 2007 15:38:28 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=411#comment-18362 Thanks for the helpful comments, folks!

Shooting an Elephant is among his writing at the george-orwell.org site–his works are in the public domain.

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By: Anna https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/06/28/no-good-guys-or-bad-guys-here/#comment-18361 Thu, 19 Jul 2007 21:42:24 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=411#comment-18361 I wish I knew better how to avoid self-deception. Especially about “What I’m doing here must be right, because I’d hate to think I screwed up”.

Some of my current strategies:

*I try to be on the look-out for self-deception and to cut it out when I notice. If I notice that I’m ashamed of a conversation I just had [or of whatever], I try to name why.

*Writing in my journal, keeping my room clean, and keeping my life in some kind of order (no mountains of procrastinated tasks) seems to help. I don’t whether this one is just me or what.

*I try to remember what’s at stake in the situation. If I’m thinking about how to help a friend, I try to remember that my friend matters. Usually I’ll find that I care more about my friend [or whatever’s at stake in the situation] than I do about my own ego. And once I notice that, it’s easier to let go of the “I can’t have made a mistake” thing.

*I think of mistakes as specific and changeable. It’s “I screwed up”, not “I am a total and permanent screw-up”.

*I try… this one is harder to articulate. But I try to remember what I want from life. And I don’t want my life to be glossy like a magazine cover. I want to be is in contact with my own details and with the details of the outside world. Noticing my faults and my screw-ups is a kind of pointer to what I am, so that I can have grit and texture and honesty in my life instead of glossy faux-happiness.

Anyone have some other strategies? Or thoughts on these?

For literature, I’d go with Dave Hingsburger’s pamphlet “Power Tools”.

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By: Evonne https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/06/28/no-good-guys-or-bad-guys-here/#comment-18360 Thu, 19 Jul 2007 19:46:22 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=411#comment-18360 Jesse, that’s a really good question . . . I’m interested in seeing others’ suggestions. All that comes to mind for me right now is an illustration of how crowd mentality, and specifically the desire to not look like a fool, can drive people to do the *wrong* thing, even if it’s accompanied by unpleasant guilt — Orwell’s “Shooting an Elephant”.

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By: Rachel Hibberd https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/06/28/no-good-guys-or-bad-guys-here/#comment-18359 Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:25:04 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=411#comment-18359 At least for now, my philosophy is to base (part) of my self-worth on making sure that I am always TRYING to do the right thing. And, as my dad once pointed out, how do you know you’re really trying unless sometimes you screw up?

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By: ballastexistenz https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/06/28/no-good-guys-or-bad-guys-here/#comment-18358 Thu, 19 Jul 2007 16:18:16 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=411#comment-18358 There is this link which might be useful. I don’t know about others. I did a whole post on do-gooderism that does explore some of this dynamic and has a lot of links.

And, yeah, being a Friend (and becoming more active in the RSoF as an adult) has helped a lot in figuring this stuff out, at least when dealing with a meeting that actually seems to live up to basic Quaker principles. (Which not all do, some of them do a sort of shadow-imitation of it that I find impossible to navigate.)

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By: Jesse the K https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/06/28/no-good-guys-or-bad-guys-here/#comment-18357 Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:50:26 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=411#comment-18357 Amanda

Thank you for phrasing it so succinctly and elegantly and clearly:

And it’s important not to get your sense of self-worth all tied up in whether you’re doing good things, because that actually makes it harder to do the right thing. Because it makes you want to think you’re doing the right thing even when you’re not, so that you can keep up the belief you’re a good person. And when you want to think you’re doing the right thing even when you’re not, it’s easier to just go into denial when you screw up.

A group I’m involved with has been struggling with power relationships on a variety of axes: class/wealth; race/ethnicity; male/female/other; heterosexual/queer; disabled/non-disabled (and I’ve probably forgotten some).

Guilt and shame and hurt feelings have interrupted and derailed so many productive conversations!

I was fortunate this year to learn that I can be humbled without being humiliated. That is, I can understand, yet again, that I’m a human and therefore don’t know everything and will make mistakes. Someone pointed out that I a) didn’t know something and b) had made a mistake, and (most importantly) c) was invited to learn and act differently. That was humbling. For decades I would have reacted with humiliation: shame, terror (this means nobody will love me because I’m a ‘bad person’) and so forth.

But that’s simply not necessary! In fact, the energy I was spending being humiliated could more productively go towards learning and changing my behavior.

Given my (limited) experience of the Society of Friends, I suspect that has played some part in developing this insight. In addition to your life experiences, and formidable cognition, were there other resources that helped you formulate this post?

In less abstract words: can anyone reading point me at other readings or films or music that illuminate and explain why a guilty/shameful reaction to criticism obstructs forward progress?

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By: Justthisguy https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/06/28/no-good-guys-or-bad-guys-here/#comment-18356 Fri, 06 Jul 2007 19:39:05 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=411#comment-18356 Umm, maybe the “normal” monkeys need the politeness training more, being more rowdy to start with? M’self, I am glad for my training in manners, seeing my tendency to blurt out whatever I think at the moment. I do think my training in manners has saved me from some ass-kickings, from hurting others’s feelings from time to time, and maybe even from arrest, a time or two. I’m glad I can do it, sorry you can’t do it.

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By: ballastexistenz https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/06/28/no-good-guys-or-bad-guys-here/#comment-18355 Wed, 04 Jul 2007 21:17:04 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=411#comment-18355 Formal manners are one of those things that sound nice in theory, but they seem to be impossible for me to actually memorize and spit out on cue.

I mean, even the basics like “Thank you,” I can be incredibly grateful to someone but gratitude doesn’t always translate into the words “thank you”. Etc.

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