Comments on: How early do we internalize ableism? https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/05/01/how-early-do-we-internalize-ableism/ Tue, 26 Nov 2013 04:39:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: Nornwen https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/05/01/how-early-do-we-internalize-ableism/#comment-24762 Tue, 26 Nov 2013 04:39:30 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=370#comment-24762 When I was in elementary school, their was a kid whom I knew had ADHD that sat next to me into class. I was diagnosed with ADHD myself. I got upset at him because he was licking his knees (stimming) and I asked him to stop. I realize later how it had a lot to do with the shame I had for myself. Though part of it was it not being a great environment, and one ADHD kid getting distracted by another.

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By: Dejah https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/05/01/how-early-do-we-internalize-ableism/#comment-24698 Sat, 28 Sep 2013 12:45:12 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=370#comment-24698 I didn’t discover I was disabled until I was an adult… or rather, knew I was disabled but there was no diagnosis until I was 36. I kinda get what you are feeling but kinda don’t. All I want to do is give you a great big hug. No one should have to experience that level of self-inflicted self-loathing. Or other-loathing. It is rough to be “other.”

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By: Abigail https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/05/01/how-early-do-we-internalize-ableism/#comment-24464 Sat, 30 Mar 2013 19:47:41 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=370#comment-24464 Hi Amanda,

Could you please contact me via email (can you see the email address that I put in?)? I’m in the process of creating toolkits on various topics for my school that will serve as introductions to these issues for people who don’t know very much about them. I was wondering if I could use this post (How early do we internalize ableism?) for a toolkit on disability. Your article would be attributed to you.

Thanks! If you have any questions, please feel free to let me know. I hope that you have a good weekend!

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By: Ashika https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/05/01/how-early-do-we-internalize-ableism/#comment-24144 Mon, 13 Aug 2012 21:35:00 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=370#comment-24144 In reply to J.

You had a rough time. Always remember that no matter what other’s say, believe in yourself. You are the best. Read the book “Helen Killer” it is a very good book. It will give you the courage to face the world and show the world that you are the best. With best regards, Ashika

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By: Autistische Selbstvertretung im Internet: Foren, Blogs, Barrierefreiheit und Respekt https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/05/01/how-early-do-we-internalize-ableism/#comment-17283 Sun, 02 Jan 2011 16:39:36 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=370#comment-17283 […] sein, dass sie für Autist_innen optimal sind. Eine weitere Voraussetzung wäre, dass Autist_innen ihren Selbsthass und ihr ableistisches Denken ablegen. Bis dahin ist es aber noch ein weiter […]

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By: Joy https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/05/01/how-early-do-we-internalize-ableism/#comment-17282 Thu, 14 Jun 2007 05:47:42 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=370#comment-17282 Dear Andrea, I apologize to you and anyone else who feels I was pushing religion or being insensitive. My intent is the opposite. I’ve lived with disabilities in four generations of my family and worked with and advocated for people with disabilities for decades.

I understand how the word “values” grates due to the politicization and misappropriation of the word – as does the term “family values”. It also bothers me. Reclaiming the concept of “values” from the way it, and religion, for that matter, have been declared by what I view as “commercialized religion” and “politicized” as opposed to “legislative” politics. Just as NO side can claim, “God is on our side”, no particular group can claim they are the only ones with values, or that only their definition of values is the one and only valid definition. Because one party talks louder or has more money does not mean they are either right or more virtuous. As for the term spiritual, I was not referring to religion. The first definition of spiritual is “an adjective, 1. of, relating to, or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things”. We need to move away from categorizing people based on looks and abilities, in other words, based on material or physical things. That is divisive, harmful, ignorant, and destructive.

All of us are valuable, lovable, and worthy beings. We all need to know that and act accordingly for ourselves and others. There is far too much violence, aggression (yes, discrimination is aggression), resentment, and hatred in this world. To change violence, aggression, resentment, and hatred, we need to change those aspects in ourselves so we do not perpetuate or continue to practice the very things that have hurt us. Again, “We cannot end violence, including prejudice and discrimination against us or anyone else, by being violent ourselves.”

One of the inclusive statement I wrote to specifically include atheism, agnosticism, and anything else was, “…and religious or spiritual practices/activism of some sort.” In other-words, we need to be true to ourselves and act based on what seems right to each of us. Based on our own belief system and experiences, seeking to act differently, to do no harm, with caring instead of aggression, is what I believe can and will change discrimination and even war. It is important to improve the world, whether it is by disability rights activism, religious practice, eco-activism, “spiritual” practice (e.g., meditation), or another means. In order to change our world for the better, to end violence, including the violence of discrimination, we need to act differently than people have acted before. We all do “take a different path to reach the same end.”

Material from The Tanenbaum Center, an organization on tolerance and on understanding each other, in the hopes that our shared visions, worldwide, religious or otherwise, was simply shared to show our commonalities are greater than our differences, and to help make that more apparent to us all. It was not to promote religion, Andrea, it was to show how myriad belief systems, atheism included, tend to share common goals

Joy

P.S. To clarify assumptions about my beliefs, you might want to know I never have “believe[d] in a literal, all knowing, all powerful God”. HIstorical and metaphorical, yes. Literal, no. As for God’s power, check out the wonderful book (sorry, it is by a Rabbi and based on the three Abrahamic religions), “When Bad Things Happen to Good People.” Rabbi Kushner examines our cultural and religious assumptions of what and why things, like disabilities, happen. (“Bad” things are part of life – I’ve lived with my child’s disabilities, including autism, long enough for my child to teach me that society’s judgments are superficial, at best, as well as ignorant and fear-based, among other things. At this point in my life, I prefer my child’s, now a young adult’s, abilities and grace over a “normal” child – if there is such a thing as normal, but I digress.) Kushner’s conclusion is, if we believe in the God of Abraham, that we cannot believe God is (1) all powerful/omnipotent, (2) all knowing/omniscient, AND (3) all love. Think about it. One can believe any two of those qualities, but the third quality always contradicts one of the other two.

Andrea, I believe that we, as a species, can do far better than the way we treat each other now. I believe it is time we, our species, grow up and take care of each other.

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By: andreashettle https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/05/01/how-early-do-we-internalize-ableism/#comment-17281 Sat, 09 Jun 2007 06:44:50 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=370#comment-17281 Joy: Obviously religion is very important — for you. And for a very large number of other people as well, or the various religions would not be as prevalent as they are. And obviously a great many people do find them very valuable means of learning, and thinking, about our most fundamental human values.

But that said, I think it is important to acknowledge that religion is not the only way of examining and transmitting values. I come from an atheist family and am atheist myself, and we all upheld (and uphold) pretty much all the same underlying values you present here. We just don’t wrap the trappings of religion around it.

If religion is what works for you, then I respect that. I’m only asking that you please show a little more respect and consideration for the fact that some people out here happen to be atheist. And I resent when people seem to assume (or imply) that we are somehow lacking in values just because we don’t believe in a literal, all knowing, all powerful God. We simply take a different path to reach the same end.

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By: Joy https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/05/01/how-early-do-we-internalize-ableism/#comment-17280 Sat, 09 Jun 2007 00:35:14 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=370#comment-17280 First, to some degree, we are all afraid of the unknown. Part of that is bound to be instinctual on a primitive, survivalist plane. Wariness helps species survive.

Second, visible, noticeable differences, when not understood, are typically demeaned. This falls into the mythology our world has apparently operated under for the thousands of years our species has existed. We all know the story… There’s a good person and a bad person. They fight. The good person “wins” in the end — because the good person is good. Our world culture is so caught up in this. When we read/watch stories, most of us want to identify with the “winner”, the “best”, the “good” person. Therefore, if someone is not as skilled, good looking, intelligent, or what-have-you, they must be “bad”. Get it? This is drilled into all of us since we were born, even though our parents’ and our culture are usually unaware of this and/or unable to recognize it.

So, what is to be done about this? Is it too prevalent, too insidious, to change? No, It can be changed. The typical way individuals address this is through studying their religion and recognizing that ALL religions focus on loving compassion, the golden rule, loving each other, valuing ALL aspects of each other with compassion for ALL of our differences. (See the end of this posting for examples. These, and many other cross-cultural, cross-religious values, are identified on the Tanenbaum.org site.)

I think consciously working to be better persons, ourselves, and religious or spiritual practices/activism of some sort on this issue, is the only way to change. We can at least work to BE the change we want to happen.

I did not have disabilities then and yet I felt devalued, disliked, inferior, discriminated against, etc., as a child. We all are put in some category in one way or anoather. For one thing, it helps us understand things Hey, I continue to have some of those inferior, inadequate, feelings every now and then — sometimes daily, even though I am now in my 50’s! My point is, we are all human. We all experience rejection and degradation in one form or another in our lives. Yes, it is not right. It is not fair. Yet it will continue as long as our cultures focus on competition and “winning” over cooporation and loving one another.

Take off as many blinders as you can. Study your religion/spirituality. Study the lives and teachings of leaders you respect and admire (ex: Gandhi, Harriet Tubman, Franklin D. Roosevelt, David Hingsburger). Study philosophy such as existentialism. Look to being the change you want to see in this world. Practice love and compassion, cooporation, tolerance and non-violence. (After all, discrimination in any shape or form is a form of violence.) We cannot change the past. Let’s move beyond the injustice and the unfairness of it all. After all, “fighting” against anything is still a form of violence – and perpetuates violence – yet is is the “violence” against each of us, no matter what shape or form, that we really want to end. We cannot end violence against us, or against anyone, by being violent ourselves.

Below are the examples collected by http://www.Tanenbaum.org:

Bahá’i: “And if thine eyes be turned towards justice, choose thou for thy neighbour that which thou choosest for thyself.” Lawh’i ‘Ibn’i ‘Dhib, “Epistle to the Son of the Wolf” 30

Buddhism: “Hurt not others in ways you yourself would find hurtful.” Udana-Varga, 5:18

Brahmanism: This is the sum of duty: Do naught unto others which would cause you pain if done to you.: Mahabharata 5:1517

Christianity: All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye so to them; for this is the law and the prophets. Matthew 7:1

Christianity: “In everything do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets.” Matthew 7.12 (All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them.” Matthew 7:12)

Confucianism: Do not do to others what you would not like yourself. Then there will be no resentment against you, either in the family or in the state. Analects 12:2

Confucianism: “ Surely it is the maxim of loving-kindness: Do not unto others what you do not want them to do to you.” Analects 15.13

Hinduism: “This is the sum of duty: do naught unto others which would cause you pain if done to you.” The Mahabharata, 5:1517

Hinduism: The raft of knowledge ferries even the worst to safety.” Bhagavad Gita 4:36

Islam: “Not one of you is a believer until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself.” Fortieth Hadith of an-Nawawi 13 (No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother what which he desires for himself. Sunnah)

Jainism: “A man should wander about treating all creatures as he himself would be treated.” Sutrakritanga 1.11.33

Judaism: “What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor: that is the whole of the Torah; all the rest of it is commentary.” Talmud, Shabbat 31a (What is hateful to you, do not to your fellowmen. That is the entire Law; all the rest is commentary.: Talmud, Shabbat 31:a)

Native American: “Respect for all life is the foundation.” The Great Law of Peace

Sikhism: “Treat others as thou wouldst be treated thyself.” Adi Granth

Taoism: “Regard your neighbor’s gain as your own gain and your neighbor’s loss as your own loss.” T’ai Shang Kan Ying P’ien

Zoroastrianism: “That nature alone is good which refrains from doing unto another whatsoever is not good for itself.” Dadistan-I-Dinik, 94:5

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By: Joy https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/05/01/how-early-do-we-internalize-ableism/#comment-17279 Sat, 09 Jun 2007 00:31:51 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=370#comment-17279 First, to some degree, we are all afraid of the unknown. Part of that is bound to be instinctual on a primitive, survivalist plane. Wariness helps species survive.

Second, visible, noticeable differences, when not understood, are typically demeaned. This falls into the mythology our world has apparently operated under for the thousands of years our species has existed. We all know the story… There’s a good person and a bad person. They fight. The good person “wins” in the end — because the good person is good. Our world culture is so caught up in this. When we read/watch stories, most of us want to identify with the “winner”, the “best”, the “good” person. Therefore, if someone is not as skilled, good looking, intelligent, or what-have-you, they must be “bad”. Get it? This is drilled into all of us since we were born, even though our parents’ and our culture are usually unaware of this and/or unable to recognize it.

So, what is to be done about this? Is it too prevalent, too insidious, to change? No, It can be changed. The typical way individuals address this is through studying their religion and recognizing that ALL religions focus on loving compassion, the golden rule, loving each other, valuing ALL aspects of each other with compassion for ALL of our differences. (See the end of this posting for examples. These, and many other cross-cultural, cross-religious values, are identified on the Tanenbaum.org site.)

I think consciously working to be better persons, ourselves, and religious or spiritual practices/activism of some sort on this issue, is the only way to change. We can at least work to BE the change we want to happen.

I did not have disabilities then and yet I felt devalued, disliked, inferior, discriminated against, etc., as a child. We all are put in some category in one way or anoather. For one thing, it helps us understand things Hey, I continue to have some of those inferior, inadequate, feelings every now and then — sometimes daily, even though I am now in my 50’s! My point is, we are all human. We all experience rejection and degradation in one form or another in our lives. Yes, it is not right. It is not fair. Yet it will continue as long as our cultures focus on competition and “winning” over cooporation and loving one another.

Take off as many blinders as you can. Study your religion/spirituality. Study the lives and teachings of leaders you respect and admire (ex: Gandhi, Harriet Tubman, Franklin D. Roosevelt, David Hingsburger). Study philosophy such as existentialism. Look to being the change you want to see in this world. Practice love and compassion, cooporation, tolerance and non-violence. (After all, discrimination in any shape or form is a form of violence.) We cannot change the past. Let’s move beyond the injustice and the unfairness of it all. After all, “fighting” against anything is still a form of violence – and perpetuates violence – yet is is the “violence” against each of us, no matter what shape or form, that we really want to end. We cannot end violence against us, or against anyone, by being violent ourselves.

Bahá’i: “And if thine eyes be turned towards justice, choose thou for thy neighbour that which thou choosest for thyself.” Lawh’i ‘Ibn’i ‘Dhib, “Epistle to the Son of the Wolf” 30
Buddhism: “Hurt not others in ways you yourself would find hurtful.” Udana-Varga, 5:18
Brahmanism: This is the sum of duty: Do naught unto others which would cause you pain if done to you.: Mahabharata 5:1517
Christianity: All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye so to them; for this is the law and the prophets. Matthew 7:1
Christianity: “In everything do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets.” Matthew 7.12 (All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them.” Matthew 7:12)
Confucianism: Do not do to others what you would not like yourself. Then there will be no resentment against you, either in the family or in the state. Analects 12:2
Confucianism: “ Surely it is the maxim of loving-kindness: Do not unto others what you do not want them to do to you.” Analects 15.13
Hinduism: “This is the sum of duty: do naught unto others which would cause you pain if done to you.” The Mahabharata, 5:1517
Hinduism: The raft of knowledge ferries even the worst to safety.” Bhagavad Gita 4:36
Islam: “Not one of you is a believer until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself.” Fortieth Hadith of an-Nawawi 13 (No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother what which he desires for himself. Sunnah)
Jainism: “A man should wander about treating all creatures as he himself would be treated.” Sutrakritanga 1.11.33
Judaism: “What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor: that is the whole of the Torah; all the rest of it is commentary.” Talmud, Shabbat 31a (What is hateful to you, do not to your fellowmen. That is the entire Law; all the rest is commentary.: Talmud, Shabbat 31:a)
Native American:
“Respect for all life is the foundation.” The Great Law of Peace
Sikhism: “Treat others as thou wouldst be treated thyself.” Adi Granth
Taoism: “Regard your neighbor’s gain as your own gain and your neighbor’s loss as your own loss.” T’ai Shang Kan Ying P’ien
Zoroastrianism: “That nature alone is good which refrains from doing unto another whatsoever is not good for itself.” Dadistan-I-Dinik, 94:5

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By: Meara Seachild https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/05/01/how-early-do-we-internalize-ableism/#comment-17278 Mon, 07 May 2007 04:20:09 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=370#comment-17278 I remember how the few friends I had were also outcast from about forth on. Before that at a different school I was best friends with a girl that had a lot of physical disabilites and even tried to talk her special ed teacher into to letting me go to that class because the environment was so much kinder on my senses. Although in that grade I didn’t consciously realize it I was already falling into the fringes. In fourth grade the other kids classed me with a couple of girls who had some sort of developmental disabilites. I’m not sure why exactly, I just didn’t fit in, but in that school even the kids who got into the gifted and talented program were teased, I got placed into that because of my voracious reading. I had so much trouble with the neighborhood and school kids my mom switched me to private school. That didn’t really help other than that there were fewer kids and they didn’t seem to be quite as eager to attack. I was still the bottom of the pile and my only friend was also in that catergory only a grade lower. I remember being ashamed of myself because I didn’t really like her because she was kinda strange. When I went to high school, also catholic I did make one close friend, I looked up to her cause she seemed so cool but she was also an outsider and the small group we associated with were as well, I sorta pulled a mental trick and decided weird was cool. I ended up moving again and was seperated from my friend partly due to problems she was having with drugs that got her put into some weird very restricted school and partly because when I was hospitalized my mom talked to her mom about it and her mother didn’t want me contacting her,

I’m still not sure why I was always on the bottom rung, except that I was probably acting weird a lot due to various kinds of dissociation. The thing is I’m still ashamed about not liking people who were also different for the most part, I never thought of the self-hate variable but it makes a lot of sense I think also there was a level of being ashamed for the other person, sorta a sympathetic pain.

I don’t know how to get rid of the “different is wrong” thing that pervades our culture. Does anyone know of any countries in the world where this is not so much of a problem? It would be nice to know if it’s a cultural thing or a basic human trait.

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