I think this theory has some applications, but I think it’s a bit rediculous to attribute ALL social behavior to self-presentational concerns. I also imagine that the degree to which behavior is motivated by getting other people to have a certain opinion of you varies greatly by individual and depending on the context.

One way of measuring this personality-wise is the Meyer’s Briggs introversion-extroversion dimension. I get lonely easily and like to have a lot of friends, but when I take the MB I score as very introverted. This is because of my “loud thoughts,” meaning I pay more attention to my own musings than I do to the social cues going on around me. Once I was living with a roomate in a dorm, and I saw on her desk a letter she was writing to a friend that said some mean things about me. I started talking to myself loudly about how rude this was, how I didn’t need her as a friend anyway, etc. I didn’t realize until about five mintues into this that she was laying in her bed the whole time. Very embarrassing.

In terms of behavior meant to convey something to other people, I think there’s a big difference between trying to communicate something and being manipulative. Genuineness in my communications is a huge value for me, but that doesn’t mean that things I say, do, and wear aren’t meant to influence people. As the self-presentational people would say, mostly it’s meant to convey something true about myself, so they don’t get the wrong idea. I like to wear long flowing skirts because I think of myself as a nurturing, spiritual person, and so I want others to see me that way. I wish I were athletic and strong, but I know I’m not, so I’m uncomfortable wearing athletic-looking clothes because I don’t want people to get the wrong idea about me. Why this is so important, I don’t know. I suspect it has to do with identity- somehow your image of yourself is more legitimate if you can get other people to say, “yes, she’s an awkward, intellectual, creative, kind, clumsy, person.”

I have another post germinating about the term “attention-seeking,” but it’s such an emotionally-laden and complicated issue that it’ll take a while.

Hope your mouth is doing well,

Rachel

Autism seems to be extreme self-centeredness to the point of not caring at all what others think. Children born with “severe” autism probably are not aware that there is anything outside themselves to aware of, and most of the early years are spent by NT parents trying to get the child’s attention and engage them to think about more than themselves.

Noncommunicative people with autism are likely not mentally retarded.. they simply do not care what other people want, and are generally oblivious to the wants and desires of others, including the desire to communicate and socialize.

To me, there’s a big difference between being mentally incompetant, and finding the cracks in the plaster wall to be significantly more interesting than what some self-important doctor is demanding at the moment. “NOW what does this fool in a lab coat want? Can’t he see I am busy?? The topography of this plaster is exceptionally intruiging!”

For the deeply introverted, facilitated communication is probably the best way to get and engage their attention since it involves physically grabbing the arm/hand of the autistic person and moving it in certain repetitive communicative patterns, and then the autistic person may finally start to acknowledge at least the FC’er and try to understand why this FC’er is moving their hand around in this strange way. “Oh, it’s you agin today. So why are you moving my hand like this? Oh, you want to TALK? You want to talk to ME?? I see now. I see…”

The boy I mentioned in the previous post spent most of the day sitting in one place rocking and repeating the same syllable over and over. However, because the staff saw some of what he did as “attention-seeking”, and because he grabbed people’s hands to pull them places (which is a very standard thing for autistic people to do), I heard them start telling each other that he wasn’t “really” autistic (their knowledge of autism was limited to what they’d seen on some TV show about Raun Kaufman from what I could gather of their conversations). Even though he behaved outwardly quite a lot more like the stereotype (especially in an institutional environment, which I think is the source of some of the modern stereotypes) than most other autistic people I’ve seen.

I also think that most people want at least some attention, that this is natural for a social species, and that many people who think they don’t want any attention whatsoever, actually probably would find that without any human contact for a really really long time they’d probably start missing it, even if they wouldn’t miss it as much as other people.

I would have thought that according to Kanner’s criterion for early infantile autism of a profound lack of desire for affective contact with other people, that the stereotype for autistic people would be that they would not want attention because they live in a world of their own.

It may be that extraverts seek attention, while introverts don’t want it.

Attention-seeking is regarded in some way as being self-centered and self-regarding. Not being attention-seeking is thought to be more virtuous – modest, self-effacing and humble – and more spiritual in some way. Maybe it’s a class thing. Attention-seeking is considered to be in ‘bad taste’. Middle class people are thought not to be attention-seeking, or they do it discreetly; while working class people are regarded as brash and ‘in your face’.

It maybe that people who have a strong sense of self-worth and high self-esteem are content not to want attention.

I don’t believe that in a group of people in a room each person would think that the other people are thinking about them.

A slight adaptation of the Carly Simon song has been going through my head in connection with this post: ‘You’re so vain you think this post’s all about you.’ Though not thinking about anyone.

My first reaction to people deciding that you were seeking attention was that they did not understand or want to understand what was going on so they chose to give it an easy label out of frustration and to deflect any sort of responsibility of the issue since it was your “fault”.

My second reaction to all this attention seeking labelling was “who cares”. Unless the person if of great value to me, I can chose to accept their observation or discount it. I usually dont put too much emphasis on someone who does not know me well. My opinion is just as valid as theirs, in fact, more so since I know myself better.

If people chose to ignore or react out of ignorance or fear to something they do not understand then this is their loss. Unfortunately, when we are young, or vulnerable, sometimes these people can have lasting affects on our lives. I found it very disturbing to hear that a teacher would continually torment you with her so-called judgement of being attention seeking. She didnt take a step back once to re-evaluate her statement when she saw it had no affect on you, nor did she question why.

Its really very subjective and highly personal, we all have different perceptions. Not all of them are true just because they are voiced, or even voiced by many.

I don’t know that I’m ‘most people’, but I do indeed engage in ‘attention seeking behaviour’ (also NT if that makes a difference). It’s difficult trying to analyse something that I do quite naturally, but I’ll try. I think it’s partly to do with peer acceptance (they like my shirt, the herd likes me, am good member of herd). Some of it is also very visceral – when someone gives me positive attention it gives me a ‘warm & fuzzy’ feeling. Negative attention can also serve the same purpose – obnoxious, I know, but if my mode of dress when a teenager caught the attention of someone I didn’t like I’d get the same warm and fuzzy feeling. It didn’t particularly matter whether the attention came from strangers, as long as it was the reaction I was hoping for from that particular group (positive or negative, depending). I may do it more than most people – I tend to assume that I’m crap at everything, and look to external attention/praise for reinforcement, so I could be a bad example. Yes, it is exhausting. I’ve spent time trying to accept myself as I am, rather than looking for this external acceptance. But as I teenager I was desperately trying to adapt and change all the time so I could be something that would be ‘acceptable’. Sometimes I do worry, like rr, about whether I’m just being ‘attention-seeking’, but I’m trying not to.

I have no idea why it’s such a bad thing when so many people do it. Is it just a case that *your* attention seeking behaviour is wrong, but *mine* is perfectly ok?

And also, of course, that NTs can’t ‘mind read’, we just delude ourselves that we can.

The trouble is, the “bad” ASB seems to usually work out to be the same thing as the good, with only someone’s subjective judgement making them “different”.

I guess my point is that I think there is good ASB, even if it is not called that. I.e. it’s impossible to communicate with someone if you don’t get their attention first; they may not even know you’re there.
I think it’s a terrible mind game that all ASB is always considered bad, in all circumstances. (It’s also too convenient a tool for ignoring all meaning in another person’s communication.)