Comments on: Babble and nonsense and typing and speech. https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/02/16/babble-and-nonsense-and-typing-and-speech/ Mon, 29 Aug 2011 05:19:32 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: calistair https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/02/16/babble-and-nonsense-and-typing-and-speech/#comment-23115 Mon, 29 Aug 2011 05:19:32 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=312#comment-23115 This post made me realize something about how I’ve been perceiving some things. I used to be confused by how I would hate some people at first contact and then they would turn out to be awful, because a lot of the time I wouldn’t be able to read facial expressions, explicit body language etc etc. The model of language as taking up space that could otherwise be used for better things and blocking the ability to read underlying social realities is..true, I think, for a lot of people, and I might be one of them.

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By: MCF https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/02/16/babble-and-nonsense-and-typing-and-speech/#comment-15844 Mon, 10 May 2010 00:16:20 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=312#comment-15844 I find your views on speech very interesting, particularly because the prejudice towards speech seems (at least, to me) to parallel the prejudice towards walking- neither are really the most effective or desirable ways of communication or travel.

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By: claudia https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/02/16/babble-and-nonsense-and-typing-and-speech/#comment-15843 Thu, 01 Mar 2007 10:55:54 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=312#comment-15843 Amanda,
I found your post on speech and typing to be very interesting. Thanks for your insights. And as far as stereotyping you, I doubt anyone who takes the time to read your thoughts would even try to pigeon-hole you into some kind of standard stereotype. You seem incredibly unique to me. I will note this. One thing you said is that people think that the content of what you write makes you more profound, simply because you write it instead of speak it. I don’t know if I would characterize it that way, for me at least. I think generally, for neurotypical people who speak, speech is usually pretty inane. We fall into a lot of conventional speaking patterms that don’t really mean that much to us other than a pattern for establishing rapport with people. For example, when we greet each other with the phrase, “How are you?”, we really aren’t interested in the details of the other person’s health or well-being, except in a very general sort of way. And we usually respond with “Fine, thanks, how are you?”, or something similar, because it is the acceptable response in our pattern of greeting each other. The actual substance and details of how we are are less important than the pattern we have established for acknowledging each other. But when we write, we usually write because we actually have something more substantive to say, and our writing tends to be more profound, detailed, organized, and substantive than our everyday speech. When we have to give speeches, for example, we usually have to write beforehand what we intend to say because it would be almost impossible to just say it spontaneously. And even as I am writing this, I find it easier, for some reason I don’t understand, to think it while I am typing that I would to just say it outloud. It would be almost impossible for me to speak this paragraph outloud spontaneously, but it feels pretty easy to think and type it. Weird. In any case, I think a lot of people might think that you are profound not because you write rather than speak, but rather because the content of your writing is much more profound than the ordinary spoken banter of neurotypicals. However, I find your writing to be very much equal in depth and meaning as the depth and meaning of the written products of neurotypicals. But that is just my opinion, and of course, it could be wrong. In any case, thanks for sharing.
C

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By: Gretta https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/02/16/babble-and-nonsense-and-typing-and-speech/#comment-15842 Mon, 26 Feb 2007 17:06:24 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=312#comment-15842 Not be able to speak is not the same as having nothing to say. You clearly demonstrate this point. I think a lot of people take their ability to communicate through speech for granted, until it affects them on some personal level. i.e. having a child or relative on the spectrum or with a speech disorder. I love your blog keep it up.

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By: Lota https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/02/16/babble-and-nonsense-and-typing-and-speech/#comment-15841 Fri, 23 Feb 2007 00:36:00 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=312#comment-15841 Speech is an over rated luxury. I find the written word to be a purer form of communication. You, lady, are far more adept at communicating with clarity and reason than 90% of the speaking people I’m forced to communicate with. Here, in the realm of electronic philosophy and free exchange of thought, I judge people not on how they say some thing but what they say. Your message is more valuable because of it’s thought and gracefull delivery not because you rely on typing to communicate.

I hope you keep these blogs comming. Your story is important, it needed to be told. I respect you, not because of the story, but because you (unlike most of the people I encounter) use the brain in your head. In fact, you use it better than most. Bravo.

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By: Javik https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/02/16/babble-and-nonsense-and-typing-and-speech/#comment-15840 Mon, 19 Feb 2007 13:43:50 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=312#comment-15840 The problem with live speech is that it requires an ability to distill complex ideas into a simple stream of words, while at the same time trying to gauge the comprehension of the other people around you and if they understand what you are saying, and then stopping or backtracking if necessary to help them understand what you are trying to tell them.

Meanwhile you have to manage your body and your appearance to look and act and sound and smell in a manner that is appealing or at least neutral to the audience. If people are distracted by involuntary hand motions or whatever, then you have to try focusing energy on stopping/controlling that while still keeping the line of thought going for whatever you’re talking about.

With written material like this blog, none of that matters.
– You can take as long as you want to read, reread, and think about what people have written.
– You can take as long as you want to write, rewrite, and think about how you are going to reply.
– Your appearance and anything else that might distract people in a real-life conversation is unseen and unimportant, so you don’t have to try to control any of it and “appear normal”. If you want to sit at your computer naked while typing a reply, nobody reading your message is able to know that. No effort needs to be wasted on trying to “manage” your appearance to be acceptable while typing.
– If you’re having a bad day or cannot think clearly at the moment, there is no problem with just simply stepping away and not writing anything for a while.

So yes, written material on a delayed-communication system like this blog is completely different from trying to talk to people live and in person.

How is your experience with online chatting such as on Second Life? How does it compare with the live conferences and posting on this blog? I would bet it is somewhat easier than live meetings since you don’t have to be concerned about physical appearances, but still somewhat harder than blogging since you can’t take your time writing out replies to people.

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By: ballastexistenz https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/02/16/babble-and-nonsense-and-typing-and-speech/#comment-15839 Sun, 18 Feb 2007 17:56:00 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=312#comment-15839 I can often tell a person’s underlying emotional state and level of tension and where it is directed and so forth in relation to other people in the room (not even always perceiving the individual people as much as a pattern of motions and sounds in the environment), in situations where many non-autistic people around me have been reading a social mask the person was putting on. (One that I could perceive but not read.)

This meant among other things that I, and another autistic person I knew, were instinctively very wary of a social worker who turned out to be breaking the law several times over. All the non-autistic people involved were shocked when they found out and said she “seemed so nice” and had “tricked them” into believing she was a nice person. They were surprised that I and the other person had picked up on the danger all along, long before they had.

Some of the non-autistic people involved in that began asking me about other people, and I tended to be right more often than not, and to pick up on social undercurrents before they could (because they were too busy reading the “I am nice” signals and other signals people were more consciously sending out). (Keep in mind that in order to pick up on these things I might not understand a word someone is saying — I remember being shocked later that a person was “asking questions” in the literal-word sense, because he had seemed to me to more be firing hostility accusations, turns out the mask in that case was hostility-disguised-as-questions.)

I know an autistic woman who was given a test as part of her autism diagnosis, in which actors acted out facial expressions and such. She was unable to read the acted facial expressions but able to tell from their level of tension and unconscious postures and such what their actual emotions were — which confused the testing process a good deal.

At a book-signing by Dawn Prince-Hughes in Berkeley a number of autistic people (me included) discussed being able to tell underlying emotions but not the social masks and such that people were putting on, and how this was different from the usual stereotype of autism.

Donna Williams has written more about it in the book Autism and Sensing, if you want a good deal of detail on this topic. I don’t totally agree with her analysis of it, but I do have a similar underlying experience as her in terms of the patterns we are able to pick up on when symbolic processing is not there to muddle up perception.

The trouble is even perceiving these things doesn’t mean I can always react in ways that show comprehension of it at the time, I am more likely to, for instance in dangerous situations, find my way into a safer part of the pattern, but will not be able to necessarily show comprehension of why I am doing so. Some people were trying to kidnap me at one point and I instinctively recoiled because of their underlying sliminess but did not realize the precise danger I was in (kidnap and rape) until later when I’d had time to process the language. It’s a different kind of processing, and there are things I miss when I am perceiving in that way, just as there are things that people are missing when they are not perceiving in that way. Sometimes you can come to equivalent conclusions from different parts of the data (“back off because this is slime personified” versus “back off because the things they are saying are things that they would say if they wanted to kidnap and rape you” both result in backing off), and sometimes someone seeing one part will see something the other person seeing the other part does not see and vice versa. Both modes of perception seem valuable.

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By: Kathryn https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/02/16/babble-and-nonsense-and-typing-and-speech/#comment-15838 Sun, 18 Feb 2007 17:13:24 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=312#comment-15838 >>And I can do so to a degree that has meant that NTs have sometimes relied on me to read certain aspects of situations for them, after the fact. Throw me in a room with the language turned off and I can tell a lot of underlying things that non-autistic people can’t normally read.)>>

Amanda, if it isn’t too much trouble, could you provide an example of the kinds of underlying things that you can pick up in a room or social setting that we NT’s can’t?

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By: Baba Yaga https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/02/16/babble-and-nonsense-and-typing-and-speech/#comment-15837 Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:24:12 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=312#comment-15837 Just FWIW, if testiness is what it takes to make yourself understood, I’m all for testiness. It got through, after all; and next time around, I hope to get the point sooner and better.

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By: observer https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2007/02/16/babble-and-nonsense-and-typing-and-speech/#comment-15836 Sun, 18 Feb 2007 14:43:49 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=312#comment-15836 This comment is unrelated to this particular post. Ballastexistenz, I read in the “Official Papers” portion of your site that you have put yourself on a behavior plan. I am interested in this, because every time I see some kind of “behavior plan,” it’s really bribery, and not a plan to solve problems. I have never known it any other way, and therefore can’t picture what yours is like. Perhaps it more closely resembles a goal-setting situation, like the one I engaged myself in when I wanted to train myself to run 8 miles. Eventually I was able to meet my goal, because it wasn’t an externally imposed thing (like the behavior plans I’ve known seem to be).

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