Ettina, you’re absolutely correct. They often overlap like hell. The idea that “something’s wrong with me” can tangle itself all up with “something’s wrong with people like me” as well as “something’s wrong with people like THAT”. People can be manipulated to hate their own ___ness, and in turn wreak insult on others who are also ___, especially those others who don’t seem to mind that they’re ___. And people who hate aspects of themselves that they’ve been taught to view as pathological can be ferocious weapons against others who share their condition, i.e. “I suppressed/cured/overcame my ___; you can too — and if you don’t you’re a misfit seeking pity” (presuming ___ is just cause for receiving pity) “or you’re not trying hard enough.” More ominous still is the poster child-turned-weapon who says “I have ___, but it’s a mild form of ___” and/or “but I overcame it, and I can live a normal life. But there are different kinds of us. I’m the good kind, but there are other kinds who are not as good, who could never lead a normal life . . .”

Conversely, the guise of “low self-esteem” is a formidable weapon in itself, used often to justify behavior that is damaging to others. “I do X because I was (insert cookie-cutter childhood trauma) and now I hate myself” is degrading on a number of levels – and it’s illogical. When one blames one’s subconscious for one’s conscious acts, especially in such a banal, pseudo-Freudian way, it sets us back decades. “This happened to me” or “I’ve been taught to hate myself” doesn’t necessarily have to jive neatly with “these are my socio-political views”. What shapes a person’s views is a collection of experiences, even seemingly trivial ones, and a jumble of perceptions so complex that to take one canned “story” and make it the scope of an individual’s politics is really ludicrous. And people who apply one “story” to their own politics are not doing justice to their own intricate and unique personalities.

I think your skinny friends were being prejudiced. The fact that they think being a certain weight means anyone “shouldn’t show their face in public” is prejudice. Prejudice and low self esteem are certainly not completely separate, by the way.

(^_^)

I’m also having trouble, because right now I’m writing a post about something where I’m far more able to describe my gut-level (literally, as in physical signs of nausea) feeling of revulsion when I see the thing, than able to coherently describe what’s wrong with the thing, and I don’t even know the word for the thing.

And, the thing-with-no-name is present in a lot of people’s writing, including the writing of some people likely to read the post and likely to be surprised by my reaction to their writing.

I’m trying for something more coherent than “this kind of writing makes me want to puke,” but I can’t exactly separate that reaction from all the reasons it does, so… it’ll be interesting.

The ‘just trying to be sensitive’ thing makes more sense when people take some responsibility for their decisions. Real consideration might include not discussing upsetting topics (if the people you’re dealing with honestly want it), but doesn’t include any of this, “I did this because of what (I assumed) you wanted, now you owe me!” demands.