Comments on: Eyeballs, redux. https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2006/06/22/eyeballs-redux/ Sun, 11 Feb 2007 16:18:39 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: andreashettle https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2006/06/22/eyeballs-redux/#comment-11969 Sun, 11 Feb 2007 16:18:39 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=135#comment-11969 I’m non-autistic, but I’ve had my own experiences with people misinterpreting my eye gaze — perhaps related to my attention deficit disorder (not diagnosed until I was about 26 but present from childhood). There were times in my childhood and adolescence when other kids would get offended because they thought I was staring at them, or when they would tease me for finding the ceiling fascinating etc. But usually at these times I wasn’t even noticing what was within my field of vision — I was too intensely wrapped up in whatever daydreaming I was doing to notice anything. I remember trying to train myself not to day dream as much in public so I wouldn’t get people picking on me for staring at the wrong time, but I just couldn’t stop day dreaming. The only thing I really managed to do — mostly, not perfectly — was to at least find ways to avoid the appearance of “staring” at people while I day dream. Or maybe adults are just better at recognizing a “glazed over” daydreaming facial expression than kids and so don’t get as bothered if my eyes happen to be pointed in their direction — I don’t actually know.

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By: Julia https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2006/06/22/eyeballs-redux/#comment-11968 Sun, 25 Jun 2006 21:11:13 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=135#comment-11968 The B&W photo had me thinking you were concentrating on something you enjoy doing.

The color photo, it looked like maybe you were looking at something away from the camera, but I wasn’t as confident in my interpretation.

I photograph nicely in posed photos. In candid ones, I tend to just look very intent on whatever it is I’m looking at or doing. I also sometimes practically bore holes through other people’s heads with my gaze (staring) at times, if I’m really focused on them, and it bothers a lot of people if I do that to them. The rest of the time, I’m cautious and careful about eye contact — I’ll look at people’s eyes but try not to make too much contact. At the point where it is about to get uncomfortable, I look just slightly away from their eyes.

If the other person is far enough away and people can generally tell what you’re looking at from your gaze, lipreading can look like intense eye-contact interest. (My husband has mild CAPD and uses lipreading to help with understanding the other person. There are a lot more misunderstandings in the car than over dinner, so I tend to start zoning out in the car more, or if I’m driving, focus more on the road.)

I have a friend who is blind, and the eye thing is a little weird, but I don’t have to make eye contact with him and he has a very expressive voice, and the combination makes for someone I like spending time with. Yes, I’m glad to see him because I like him (I first “met” him through online communication) but also because I can relax certain social demands and not seem weird to him. It’s also nice to be around someone who really doesn’t care what I look like. If I have a geeky t-shirt I’ll describe it to him, but that’s about as far as it goes. (And that’s mostly because if I have a geeky t-shirt on, I want everyone to know just exactly how geeky and in what direction I am.)

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By: Ballastexistenz » Blog Archive » Efficiency and frugality https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2006/06/22/eyeballs-redux/#comment-11967 Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:57:10 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=135#comment-11967 […] In response to one of my earlier posts on interpretations of my eye gaze, Allison Cummins wrote: As an NT, I use facial expression (as Amanda noted) and body posture when interpreting gaze. […]

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By: ballastexistenz https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2006/06/22/eyeballs-redux/#comment-11966 Sat, 24 Jun 2006 08:27:15 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=135#comment-11966 I really don’t look that different when warned about a photograph, than I do in “candid” photographs. I don’t have the wide variety in facial expressions and body postures that a lot of people seem to. Even if I feel suddenly nervous and tense in a photograph, there is only a slight, if any, change in my visible body postures, as far as I can tell. (I have studied my appearance extensively as an attempt to understand what exactly other people are reacting to in my appearance.)

I took a picture of another autistic woman who visited recently, and she struck a pose with her wooden map of Russia. That’s the sort of thing I would have trouble doing: I don’t really strike poses, I more just settle into one of the fairly limited amounts of postures I use in everyday life to begin with.

I don’t even really have the “public display mode” that one autie I know wrote about. I’m just kind of there, and the main difference in my appearance from private to public is that in public I try really hard to keep all of my clothing on.

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By: Echospectra https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2006/06/22/eyeballs-redux/#comment-11965 Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:19:30 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=135#comment-11965 The mental caption that came up when looking at the photo with the blocks was “attentive” – which could be either “thinking” or “perceiving” (or both), concerned with either internal or external things (or both), either active or passive (or both), direct or indirect (or both)… The thing where this keeping-the-possibilities-open didn’t automatically happen was “calm” vs. “stressed/overloaded”, so that probably depends on projection a lot. Now that I write it down “attentive” doesn’t seem to mean a whole lot (I don’t mean something mystical either); it just clearly doesn’t mean “vacant”.

With the color photo there couldn’t be any “fair play” first impressions (except that you look nice), because we figured it was you getting your picture taken in the same way you made the video about typing without looking at the keyboard.

In childhood we got remarks like “don’t look so angry” from teachers when we were paying attention to what they were saying, and might have looked, for all we knew, interested or even enthusiastic instead. The worst of the bullying we experienced seems to have been somehow connected (aside from “odd behavior” of course) with our face; anything perceived as unusual about it is probably in what it does (or doesn’t) rather than in its physical qualities. There isn’t anything physically unusual about our eyes either, as far as I know.

Some of us can observe from the physical look of people’s eyes that something is wrong (this presupposes of course that they look at people’s eyes at all), but we usually have to ask “are you sad, stressed, tired, or ill?” unless there are clear behavioral indicators to help narrow it down.

We also know of an instance where the unusual movements of someone’s eyes and head were entirely ascribed to that person’s physical disability, when it was actually typical autistic avoidance of eye contact. I’m guessing that people’s ideas about your eyes probably differ a lot based on whether you’re in your wheelchair or not.

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By: ballastexistenz https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2006/06/22/eyeballs-redux/#comment-11964 Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:41:01 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=135#comment-11964 That’s actually because I move the minimum amount of body parts necessary to get something done. (“Move” in this case means “change from whatever they’re doing without my interference”, so my body can be moving around a lot without my adding any deliberate movements into the mix at all.) Not because I live in a hot climate (my preference is relatively cold climates; in even moderately hot climates I can barely do anything but lie flat on my back a good chunk of the year), but because it takes a lot of work to move and I think I’ve developed over time a tendency to only move in the most efficient ways I can come up with. (This is also why I use a wheelchair: I can walk much further, understand much more, and do far more things, with the majority of my body, including my head if necessary, physically supported. I’m actually highly active – by my standards – in a wheelchair, whereas before just trying to get to the bathroom and back the requisite amount of times per day not only didn’t happen but wore me out too much to do anything else.)

It’s very interesting to me that these postures would stand out less in a country with less food and more heat. I think I do them for the same purpose (conservation of energy and effort), but different specific reasons.

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By: Alison Cummins https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2006/06/22/eyeballs-redux/#comment-11963 Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:59:49 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=135#comment-11963 As an NT, I use facial expression (as Amanda noted) and body posture when interpreting gaze.

In Western culture, we tend to prefer the vigourous, dynamic agent. Firm handshake, upright posture and all that.

In Nigeria (I lived there four years), where all that tension and vigour would be a waste of scarce calories and generate unwanted heat in a hot climate, people are much more relaxed. While most Canadian NTs would expect someone to stand up, look you in the eye and shake your hand firmly, a Nigerian is likely to remain seated with her head propped up on her arm, more or less looking toward you, as she proffers one limp hand to be shaken.

Many Canadians would interpret this not as frugality, but as laziness and inattention.

Amanda has a frugal-type body posture. She uses support (floor; elbows on knees) and has a facial presentation that could be unkindly described as “slack.” For me, this overall picture suggests someone who isn’t particularly present in her own body or for the other people with her, whether because she’s daydreaming or incapable of thought. Eye gaze is interpreted in this overall context.

Of course, knowing better, I can make a point of disregarding certain signals and focussing on other ones. But people have to know better to do that… otherwise they will defer to their unconscious readings.

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By: ballastexistenz https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2006/06/22/eyeballs-redux/#comment-11962 Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:30:21 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=135#comment-11962 That’s happened to me with the optometrist as well. Not that I mind, since I can’t stand those eyedrops.

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By: Berke^Amorpha https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2006/06/22/eyeballs-redux/#comment-11961 Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:21:56 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=135#comment-11961 I sit on the floor a lot too, often in preference to chairs and couches. I suspect that culture has a lot to do with why floors are considered dirty to some and acceptable space in others– a lot of it has to do with whether shoes are worn in the house or not. In the houses we’ve been in where you take your shoes off at the door, the floor was much more often considered an acceptable-use space than in houses where you didn’t take them off.

We have some firsthand experience with people’s perceptions of our eyes going from thoughtful to blank. People commented on our “thoughtful” stare as an infant and thought we were making eye contact (although, if they were looking us right in the eyes, I suspect what they interpreted as us looking back at them was probably much more of a deer-in-the-headlights thing). At approximately age 9, people suddenly began to perceive our eyes, even when we were focusing on objects around us, as “spazzing” or “blank” or “lights on, no one home.” It became a frequent subject of bullying. As far as I can tell to this day, absolutely nothing about us or the way we looked at people had changed. Maybe it was yet another one of those things that looked endearing, cute, or mystical in childhood but embarassing and inappropriate in someone older.

We frequently seem to confound people who insist that they can judge someone’s mental state just by looking into their eyes, either psychically or through cold reading. I wonder if it’s more likely that people in cultures where eye contact is routine tend to express emotions in a “readable” way through their eyes, whereas people in cultures where eye contact isn’t universally acceptable may express their emotional state through other means. As far as I know, there haven’t been any cross-cultural studies on that. Anyway, we’ve had several people insist that they knew when we were paying attention or not paying attention, whether we had been sleeping or not, whether we were lying or not. “I can see it in her eyes.” The majority of the time, whatever they were seeing in our eyes was something they had projected there themselves– especially the ones who insisted they could see whether we were being truthful or not.

A lot of people have focused on our having larger-than-normal eyes– that was another one of the things that was cute in childhood, but ended up making our face look ‘weird’ and ‘unbalanced’ in adulthood (especially since we have some other minor facial differences that seem to add together for a lot of people to form an overall look that’s slightly “off”). We’ve had some people, including an optometrist, comment on our pupils being unusually dilated (they were apparently enough so for the optometrist to examine our eyes without having to put drops in to dilate them first).

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By: ballastexistenz https://ballastexistenz.wordpress.com/2006/06/22/eyeballs-redux/#comment-11960 Fri, 23 Jun 2006 06:41:05 +0000 http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=135#comment-11960 So they see the floor, but blame my eyes? That’s interesting.

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